Did I miss a memo?

[agilebrit]

I just read some guidelines for a new antho that implied that atheists and agnostics were "marginalized" in the SF/F community. I won't name the antho, because there's no sense burning bridges, but that strikes me as...

Well. Patently ridiculous.

Marginalized among "mainstream" America? Perhaps, depending where you live--Lampasas, TX, yeah; San Francisco, not so much. Marginalized in the SF/F community? Dude, no. Don't look now, but you gotta little persecution complex on your sleeve there. This gets back to the whole thing where I feel "marginalized" as a right-wing, religious, gun-toting woman writing in the SF/F genre. I mean, seriously, it's gotten to the point where I'm surprised if a SF/F writer (male or female) is actually conservative. And if they're religious too??? Madness!

Sometimes, I just... side-eye this business. Really hard.

Comments

[gorengal.livejournal.com]

a new antho that implied that atheists and agnostics were "marginalized" in the SF/F community

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Seriously, I could point to at least a dozen examples of Russell T. Davies' atheism manifesto in Doctor Who and Torchwood alone. And how about Caprica, where the "cult" of monotheism is seen as dangerous and subversive. And, and...I can't even count the number of times a scifi show/novel has had a character calmly state "...of course there is no God because science..." I mean, really.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

I know, right? Is there a secret cabal of fundie SF/F writers putting out stuff that... no one can find?

And can I join it?

[roseaponi.livejournal.com]

Let's start one!
Is there a way to work "Unicorns" into the name of it without sounding like My Little Pony fanfic, though?

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

"Secret Cabal of Unicorn Fundies." SCUF. There we go.

Maybe we should do a Kickstarter. *is only half-kidding*

Now I need have an icon.

[gorengal.livejournal.com]

I'm lying here in bed, sick, and you made me snort with laughter...thanks. :D

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

ICON.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

*eyeroll* Really? Because most of my favorite SF/Fantasy creators are atheists. Some of them are better than others at writing religious characters. But SF went atheistic decades ago, primarily thanks to Star Trek.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

I looked at the guidelines, blinked, and read it twice just to be sure that's what it said. And then my face did this: o.O

Edit for icon.

[yamamanama.livejournal.com]

There are plenty of right-wing religious gun-toting people writing SFF. I don't think any of them are any good, but they're there.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

There are a few, and some of them have won awards and are bestsellers, your opinion notwithstanding. Some of them are friends of mine. But they are vastly outnumbered by leftists. it's not even a contest.

[yamamanama.livejournal.com]

There's Simmons, but he hasn't written anything even decent since Rise of Endymion.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

There's Larry Correia (The MHI and Grimnoir books). Brad Torgerson (published many times in Analog & nominated for a Hugo and a Campbell). johncwright and his wife arhyalon. Eric James Stone (won a Nebula), who is religious, although I have no idea what his politics are, but to the right of the spectrum IIRC. John Ringo writes consistent bestsellers, although I don't know how religious he is.

And that's all I can name off the top of my head, and only because I've actually met most of them, either online or in person.

I'm sure there are others I'm missing. The point is that they're a handful, as opposed to the scads of leftist and/or irreligious SF/F writers.

The fact that I can name one woman who is both religious and conservative whom others may have heard of is telling.

[fierynotes.livejournal.com]

Arthur C Clarke wrote a short story called "The Star." I thought it was a beautiful story, but while it dealt with faith, it was open-ended as hell... and more than a little disturbing. The main character's belief in the star that led three wise men to a manger is confirmed, but his faith is shaken anyway, and for very good reason.

I see Correia's books in stores, and am tempted. I probably wouldn't know the name from Adam if not for you, though.

I read the Eric James Stone story that won the nebula... and I'll just shut my yap about that. I remember reading that he doesn't think much of people like me, though. Same with OSC, whose books I enjoyed until the author himself made it impossible for me to read them.

Can't think of any others right now.

Speaking as an atheist... we take a lot of shit in many arenas. Sci-fi isn't one of them.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Larry's books are awesome, and I don't just say that because I know him. They're, like, the anti-Twilight. If you like books about guys (and gals!) killing monsters, the MHI books are for you. The first one opens with an accountant tossing his werewolf boss out a 14th-story window. They are, at the least, a fun read.

And, you know, if I eschewed every entertainer who "didn't think much of people like me," I'd spend my life bored to death because I would have next to no entertainment to consume. Unless someone is completely obnoxious (Alec Baldwin, I'm looking at you, and I'll still go see something animated you did the voice work in because I don't have to see your smug, ugly face), I don't boycott based on ideology.

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

I agree. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

And it's not the first time I've seen it. That's what kills me. I'm all, do you people even live on the same planet and hang out with the same people and go to the same cons I do? Or do you live in a bubble where it's all persecution, all the time, no matter the context?

It's bizarre.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

"Diversity" is the watchword of the day. But it's "diversity" based on skin color and sexual orientation, not actual viewpoint. You better fall into lockstep with the current cause du jour, or else. Otherwise, even if you're a member of an oppressed group, you will be accused of internalize -isms.

Dude, no. I do not have internalized misogyny just because I use a certain word to describe a certain kind of woman, or have certain political views the majority in SF/F disagrees with.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Tell you what, militant atheists are incredibly evangelical and intolerant. It's hilariously ironic, really. I've gotten to the point where I just lift an eyebrow. Or point and laugh.

[fierynotes.livejournal.com]

I probably shouldn't reply, but... here goes:

Yes, we do get a lot of shit. If I had a buck for every time I saw someone accusing my sort of lacking the capacity for morals or ethics because we don't believe in God, and/or suggesting that putting us in any position of power is a one-way ticket to ruin... well, I wouldn't be rich, but I could take a date to a really fancy restaurant, at least. I could go on... but this is agilebrit's LJ, not mine, so I'll cut that rant short.

I'm not saying this to excuse some of my louder and less tolerant fellows-in-nonbelief, because some of them are jerks... but some of your louder and less tolerant fellows-in-belief are jerks, too. (Any group is going to have a few jerks, and those jerks are doing most of the talking -- enough to make the whole group look bad.) And in some spheres, those jerks have some influence. Just not really in fandom, and absolutely not in SF.

As for your comment below, about science being my religion? Depends on how you mean that. If you mean as a belief system, I'll go along with that. (I could go further and say that our beliefs are formed by our perceptions of reality, not reality itself, and thus there's lots of room for disagreement... but as interesting a philosophical discussion as that would no doubt be, I really don't have the chops for it.) I only disagree with that assessment when, for example, some idiot claims I worship Charles Darwin. And yes, that's happened.

For what it's worth, I'm forthright about being an atheist, but I don't preach unless challenged or invited... and these days, if I'm challenged on it, I don't bother. It only pisses people off, and it never changes their opinions. (And for all the differences in our beliefs, I'd guess your experience is a lot like mine in this respect.)

[bojojoti.livejournal.com]

That's ridiculous! I have to overcome my annoyance at anti-Christian (or any faith) bias in the majority of sci-fi I read.

[werewolf-hacker.livejournal.com]

I know, right? When I found out that "That Leviathan, Whom Thou Hast Made" (which stars a sympathetic Mormon missionary as the protag) actually got (a) published in Analog, and (b) won a Nebula? I was stunned.

Maybe it's turning around? One can hope I can ride that particular wave...