So, since I got done today was a drabble, I thought I'd cross-post this little gem...

[agilebrit]

From the GAFF board. Background, someone posted a thread on GAFF about a mpreg "Diagnosis Murder" fic. And who shows up but the executive producer/writer for the show itself. And he immediately starts slagging on fanfic writers--not realizing that the majority of posters at GAFF are fanficcers ourselves. He leaves after a few posts with his tail between his legs, but continues the argument in his blog. I've added a little here and there to what I posted at GAFF.

I've now read through all three pages of this thread (now it's up to four pages) and gone about halfway down the first post of Mr. Goldberg's blog. And it's been very entertaining. Some pull quotes, not necessarily all his:

Quote:
It boggles my mind that anyone would want to waste their creative energies writing such derivative stories. Can anyone really be so obsessed with a television show?

Oh, honey, you have NO idea. ROFL Of course...no one's that obsessive about your shows. Because they sucked.

Quote:
Fanfic...teaches laziness and stupidity.

Erm. Yeah. Because that 35000-word AU futurefic I spent hours and hours researching, and months writing, was a result of laziness... Ya know, the first time I ever actually finished a story, it was a fanfic. I tried writing original fic in high school, and some a few years ago as well. It went nowhere. Now that I've cut my teeth on fanfic, I feel a lot more ready to jump into the world of original fic. Not sure I ever would have if I hadn't honed my skills first. And I can't create original characters because I'm stupid. Oh wait. *counting on fingers* Pastor Tom, Mandy, Dusty, Alicia, Cain, the Moab monsters, not to mention a sane version of Dru and a female Angelus... *sticks tongue out childishly*

Quote:
It doesn't matter whether you think you're doing it better or not. The people paid to write the books or episodes are approved BY THE CREATOR OF THE CHARACTERS...as are their stories. Whether you like it or not, those writers are reflecting the creative desires of the owners of the work.

Paraphrase: They may be crap, but they're *approved* crap. So, they're okay. This other, unapproved, stuff may have tight writing and excellent plot and characterization, but it's not *approved* by TPTB, so it's automatic garbage.

Quote:
When you are writing for a tv show, you are writing with the creative consent and direction of the author -- the creator or executive producer of the show.

Yeah. It's still glorified fanfiction. Just because it's "approved" or "original" is no guarantor of quality. Lord knows I've seen and snerked at enough bad movies, bad novels, and bad TV shows (and horridly crappy tie-in novels--the "Spiderman" tie-ins being a notable exception to the "crappy" rule; they're quite good. Angel and Buffy novels? Not so much) to know that sad little fact.

The dude has a serious arrogance problem. I'm not going to waste any more time on him, but hopefully he'll be willing to read some actual *good* fanfic (instead of the dreadful mpreg trash), and reform his opinion with a little more information. Jane Espenson, who has more talent in her little finger than this guy has in his entire body, has called us "real writers." And that's good enough for me.

And now there's wank about fanfic on the NaNoWriMo board as well. It's stealing, most of it sucks, blah blah blah. Well, Joss said it's okay, so I suppose as long as I hang out in the Buffyverse, I'm all right. And yes, most of it sucks. Most original stuff sucks as well, which is why only a tiny fraction of it is ever published. I'm not making any money off of it, it's a hobby I share and enjoy with my friends, and it's a way to get instant feedback from a built-in fandom--although I do wish I'd get more concrit than I do. Yes, flist, this means YOU. Hit me; I can take it. If it's crap, I need to know, mkay?

Not everyone can network with other original writers. I have no idea where to even start doing that. But writing Buffy/Angel fic, I have automatic critics who will tell me that my characterization is crap, or my pacing is off, or my description could use work. I don't have that for original stuff, except my my long-suffering (published) Mom.

Speaking of writing...I've gotten a drabble done today--that I started yesterday. How in the world am I going to get 1700 words a day written for NaNoWriMo? *headdesk*

Comments

[inlovewithnight.livejournal.com]

Fanfic...teaches laziness and stupidity.
To which I say ...bite me, loser-man. ::sticks out tongue:: Not big on the maturity today.

I fear NaNoWriMo. It's going to devour my brain.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

I fear NaNoWriMo. It's going to devour my brain.

Oh, me too. *shudder* I've got a week and a half to come up with some semblance of a plot for my characters.

Hee! My Mom was thrilled that I'm going to do something more "mainstream." Because there's a huge market for Christian vampire horror novels... o.O

[vampirepuppet.livejournal.com]

I read that discussion soon after it started. The guy came across as a real jackass. He eventually adopted a more conciliatory tone in his blog, but too little, too late, for me.

I read a sample chapter of his and I'm also familiar with a couple of the shows he wrote for. I'll put it this way: The fact that LG "made it" is cause for hope to alight in the heart of even a badfic writer that s/he will one day be professionally published.

[illmantrim.livejournal.com]

NaNoWriMo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!grins

[speakr2customrs.livejournal.com]

Fanfic...teaches laziness and stupidity.

Bollocks! As I was just saying in a discussion on theohara's LJ, fanfic teaches discipline and concentration.

And (not mentioned in that discussion because it wasn't relevant there) observational skills, consistency of characterisation, pacing, - you name it.

I know I'm a vastly better writer now than when I was getting rejection slips for my original works. If I return to them I'll do a much better job this time. Probably still get the rejection slips, because I'm not a celebrity so publishers would regard me as a gamble, but they'd be a better quality of rejected works.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Hey, you have to start somewhere. My (published) Mom started by getting short stories published in little out-of-the-way magazines and networking with other mystery authors. Now she has a three-book deal with a publisher. It took years, but if you're patient and don't give up, I daresay that, from what I've seen, your writing is just as good (if not better) than many bestselling authors *cough*AnneRice*cough* today.

[highlander_ii]

This *so* deserves chainsaw!Giles

Quote:
It doesn't matter whether you think you're doing it better or not. The people paid to write the books or episodes are approved BY THE CREATOR OF THE CHARACTERS...as are their stories. Whether you like it or not, those writers are reflecting the creative desires of the owners of the work.

Erm - I don't think this is entirely correct from a 'the ppl pd to write the books are approved by the creator of the characters' - do the show 'creators' get to 'approve' the tie-in books, etc?? Or is it the other PTB types? (I don't know - I'm asking)

However - the fact that fanfic isn't 'authorized' doesn't make it crap...

cases in point: The Van Helsing tie-in novel. It is a sad, sad day when the JUNIOR novel is BETTER than the 'big people' book...

ALL of the BtVS / AtS novels, EXCEPT "These Our Actors" are complete drivel. (unless someone's written a really good one recently)

And don't even GET me started on the Stargate tie-ins - either the ones for the movie or the TV series - they all suck balls like you wouldn't believe.

Reiteration: Just b/c one is getting paid to write novel-length fanfic based on a tv program or movie, doesn't mean that one has the talent to write said stories...

*rantrantrantyrant*

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that it's TPTB at whatever Big Corporate Entity® that approve the tie-in novels. Joss would never allow such tripe to be published using his characters. I have read two Buffy/Angel tie-in novels, and both of them (by two different authors) sucked rocks. The writing was flat, the characterization was off, and the plots were predictable.

I don't just "think" I can do a better job, I *know* I can. If that makes me an arrogant bitch, I don't care.

[highlander_ii]

HERE! HERE!

Yes - exactly -

Funny thing tho - the SG-1 tie-ins are written by Ashley McConnell - and she's boring as hell w/ SG-1, but the one BtVS book that I actually LIKED (These Our Actors) was co-written by her... go figure.

However - Christopher Golden - should totally hang up his pen, his typewriter, his PC, whatever and find something else to do - he is so mind-numbingly boring - I'd rather go to WORK than read his shit...

[whirligigged.livejournal.com]

*scowl* How rude! I understand how he might not want to see his characters being written to do things he wouldn't normally write them to do. But, come on. We disclaim! We don't make money! We do our best to do justice to the characters, and I think many of the fanfic writers out there do a damn good job of it, too. But if he has a problem with it, he shouldn't read it! It doesn't help that he was on "Gawd-Awful Fics" or whatever it was. I mean, come on. What else do you expect on a board like that? I hope he at least went and read maybe one or two that were considered good by the general reading population, so that he could get a better judge of fanfic writers. "Fanfic...teaches laziness and stupidity." Please. Talk about generalization. *simmer*

Well, anyway, it isn't losing him any money, isn't harming him, and if his mind is permanantly scarred by whatever horrifying fic he might have come across, it's his own damn fault, and he should clear off.

Also, Diagnosis Murder isn't the worst show (it comes on after "Early Edition" on Pax, so I've seen the first fifteen minutes or so), but who the hell would want to write fanfiction about it? No offense meant to those who do...

[/rant]

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

I know. It's like he pulled every single fanfic cliche he could think of and trotted them out as pearls of wisdom. And I guess we were supposed to fall all over ourselves thanking him for sharing his brilliance with us. Or something.

I think he might have found the thread on GAFF by doing a "vanity search" on Google. But, dude...anything that shows up on the GAFF board (with the exception of the Antidote section) is going to be, by nature, Godawful. DUH. He apparently thought that the universal opinion of GAFF was that fanfiction itself is a horrible sin against humanity, without realizing that most of the GAFFers are fanfic writers ourselves.

He said that he tried to get some archives to stop allowing DM fic to be posted, and they told him to bugger off...probably because he isn't the copyright holder and thus has no actual authority to make such a request.

He may have moderated his position somewhat; someone said he had, later. I didn't get that far. My blood pressure can only take so much, even though it's usually low. LOL

[alliterator.livejournal.com]

Lazy and stupid, huh? I couldn't write as much original fiction today as I do, if I hadn't started with fanfiction. Fanfiction is only lazy and stupid for those writers who don't care about writing and only want to have a story about "Spiek who iss HOTTTT!!!!" For those who care about writing and about the fandom, it is a way of expanding the universe and a way of honing your skills and seeing, before you create original characters, if you can handle already-made characters.

How in the world am I going to get 1700 words a day written for NaNoWriMo?
Yeah, this is my problem as well. I just said that I'm going to force myself to write every single day until I have 1700 words, even if they don't make a lick of sense.