Warning: Rantage ahead.

[agilebrit]

Probably a short rant. But this has been eating at me for awhile.

Yeah, I'm looking at ginmar. Not only does she seem to have no concept of the LJ-cut, but she seems to be a very angry and bitter person. I friended her when she was in Iraq and I wanted the POV of someone who was on the ground over there. I lurked, didn't comment much, and she probably doesn't know me from a hole in the wall. But I see what happens to people who dare to disagree with her, and so I bite my tongue and don't say anything.

However, her latest entry is the last straw. I know the rhetoric from the left is nearly so automatic that they don't even notice or think about what they're saying, but when someone says

We are committing worse acts than the people we oppose.

I call bullshit. We are not planting car bombs and blowing up innocent people. We are not blowing up mosques. We are not "torturing" prisoners in the classical sense of what torture used to mean. We're certainly not cutting off the heads of people with dull knives while yelling "God is great!" We are not rioting and killing over a discredited news story that a holy book was defaced while ignoring the fact that the "religious" prisoners themselves have defaced that same holy book. Qualitatively and quantitatively, the statement "We are committing worse acts than the people we oppose" is complete and utter Barbra Streisand.

I admire her writing tremendously and wish her well. But I won't miss her LJ entries.

ETA (Apr. 17, 2007): The post on Gin's LJ linked above has since been flocked, but it wasn't when I made this entry. Otherwise, yeah, I couldn't have seen it, and this entire wank might never have happened.

SON OF ETA (Sept. 4, 2007): Look, if you people can't play nice on here, I'm going to lock down comments on this post and start using the banhammer. Dropping f-bombs on my LJ? Not cool. Picking a fight with a third party on my LJ? Also not cool. The discussion is two years old. Drop it. If you want to pick a fight with ginmar, do it on your own space, not mine. Capice?

Comments

[illmantrim.livejournal.com]

hugggs and sends ion the Spike with tea muses

yeah, I hear ya...

Yeah.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

I defriended her some time back over the same issues. She has a serious "my way or the highway" mentality--disagree with her, and you're The Enemy. And though she'd deny it, she's got a bad case of Moral Superiority. And it's too bad. I just stopped being able to read her at all

Re: Yeah.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

*breathes sigh of relief* Oh, golly, I'm so glad it's not just me. You know, I don't want to cause drama in her LJ, because that's her space and it would be rude to do that...but it seems that any disagreement with her causes drama.

Re: Yeah.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, gotta love the moral superiority combined with the inability to say it to my face. And oh, yeah,I've said it before, too: You disagree with me? That's fine? Be a cowardly bitch about it---like you are here---and I will have a problem with it. You're that professional virgin, aren't you? No wonder you can't handle anything more thna black or white.

Re: Yeah.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I call bullshit here too. If I'd "said it to your face" in your own LJ...you wouldn't have had a problem with it? Please. Like I said above, I've seen what happens to people who disagree with you. And I didn't want to bring the drama. But since you're apparently bored enough to bring it to my LJ after six months...

Dude, how'd you even find this? You don't know me from Adam. Jeepers.

Re: Yeah.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Oh, and HonorH? Sorry about the spammage your inbox must be getting about now. You didn't deserve this. *hugs*

[crayonbreakygal.livejournal.com]

Sorry you've had such a hard time with this LJer. Although I don't always agree with everyone on my flist, it's never the my way or the highway. Everyone is different. That's what makes this a great way to communicate. She must not get that.

Yes, I do agree with you. We aren't going around blowing people up to make a point. Some people can't see different sides to issues. Which is unfortunate for her.

::hugs::

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Well, she and I haven't gone at it personally, because, like I say, I keep my mouth shut on her LJ...it's her space, she can say what she likes. But if you disagree with her politics, she sees you as an enemy to be destroyed, and it's personal with her, and that's an attitude I've never understood and never will.

Re: Yeah.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Have you been to Iraq? Have you stood on the edge of a mass grave? No? Then fuck off.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Hm, were you in Iraq? No? What do you know about what's going on there?Hm? Let know. I'll look foward to your answer.

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

You certainly have the right to friend/defriend anyone you want to. It is your journal. I friended her too, and I can see that she can be upsetting to read. She is a woman of strong opinions, certainly, and not one to mince words about them. It can be a little excessive sometimes, but since she is writing in her journal, she can say what she likes. No reason you have to read it, if it bothers you.

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

and I didn't mean this to be in any way snarky..just saying that I understand why you feel this way.

Holy Mother of God!

[aadler]

I checked this out just from curiosity, and was frankly stunned. I’ve seen disagreement before, and heard of flame wars, but this is ridiculous and appalling.

FIRST. Yes, the attacks by ginmar were direct, personal, and irrelevant to the issues. Not to mention vicious and gratuitous.

SECOND. I did serve in Iraq, and I now am in Afghanistan. That means the whole deal: being attacked with small arms, rockets, mortars, grenades; bodies by the roadside, dismembered and otherwise; friends wounded (none yet killed, for which I am continuously thankful); funerals every other week, for people I didn’t know personally but who were known by those around me. I’m on my second tour, and volunteered for both … and, you know what? My military service doesn’t give me any license to be hateful and abusive. Combat veteran and total jerk are two completely different things; a person can be both, and be respected for one and censured for the other.

THIRD. This isn’t just about differences of opinion, it’s about how one reacts to disagreements. Last night four people in my unit got together: one bedrock conservative, one Democrat with conservative leanings, one aggressive libertarian, and one unabashed liberal. We didn’t attack each other over the differences; we spent hours working together on an official rebuttal to an unjust letter of reprimand (directed at the Democrat). We all disagreed with each other politically, and all respected and supported each other as people. What’s so hard about that?

And, as has been repeatedly pointed out, this has all been in response to something agilebrit posted six months ago in her own LJ space. ginmar doesn’t have any logical support for her attitude; this is just pure fury, and — I’ll say it again — is not justified or excused by her no-doubt-honorable service in Iraq.

Re: Holy Mother of God!

[janeway216.livejournal.com]

Well said.

Re: Holy Mother of God!

[katsu]

Right on. Just... right on. I wish I could express my own thoughts half as eloquently.

Bearing witness to terrible things doesn't provide some sort of unquestionable right to be hateful toward others.

I'm not a combat veteran, and I never will be; I was turned down by the army because I can't get my weight to acceptable levels. The closest I'll ever get to understanding is probably what I've seen during my years as a volunteer EMT - and I'd think that doesn't get close. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that what I have seen has only served as big reminder to me just how precious every word we speak or type is. Because in the end, that is so much of what we leave behind.

Re: Holy Mother of God!

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Wow, Alix. You rock. Very much. Thank you.

Re: Holy Mother of God!

[hungry-worm.livejournal.com]

*LJ-hops in*
The eloquence with which you made your points is admirable.

I don't even know how I skipped over here, but it's shocking what drama lurks behind every second corner. Just...wow (<-- in the bad way).

Sorry for the spamming, agilebrit, I just had to comment after following this bizarre back and forth over several different pages. *shakes head* But it's nice to see that some people can still argue normally. :)
*LJ-hops out*

Re: Holy Mother of God!

[dusk-in-dendera.livejournal.com]

You are so awesome. Well stated!

You stupid cunt, PLEASE

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

I've got some stupid fucking Xtian housewife and some VIRGIN mocking me behind my back while they don't tell me to my face they think I have ISSUES, and you're whining about it?! Give me a fucking break, bitch. You didn't know anybody personally? I did. I could go on.I won't. I'm not getting comments directed via email but if you're the honorable service member you think you are, you'd have emailed you. YOu didn't.

Top recap==I got some virgin whiing aobut how she finds me bitter. Okay,when has she done what I've done? When has she wondered if she'll have to commit suicide in order to avoid being raped? Have you ever been in that situtaion, you and the rest of thse Fandom_wank assholes? Have you ever? Has suicide ever occured to you? Has it? Answer me and answer me honestly. If it hasn't, fuck you

No-doubt honorable service?Fuck you. If the bitch had told me she'd defriended me I'd haved defriended her. Simple.End of it. But the cunt didn't tell me and so she had access to my locked posts for six months. Do you really think I hide what I am? C'mon, bitch. Is there any possibility IU pretend to be something other than what I am? Huh?

[wickedwonder1.livejournal.com]

See, this is what I get for clicking on things I shouldn't:)
I agree totally with what you said. If you disagree with someone, let them have their opinion and back off! You don't need to start wars and such because they believe something different than you. You're a good person, agilebrit, because I probably would have handled this differently (and a lot worse).

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

*blush* Thank you. It's wild, isn't it?

[daisydeadhead.livejournal.com]

My name isn't Belledame.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Look, I don't care who you are. If you want to pick a fight with ginmar, do it on your own space, not mine. Then you can drop all the f-bombs you want. Dropping into a discussion two years after the fact to poke a person is flat rude.

[daisydeadhead.livejournal.com]

Actually, the war is lots older than two years. You brag that you supposedly know all about it, then show that you have no fucking clue. (Were you really there, or is this some online martyrdom fantasy?)

I was a feminist while you were swimming around in your mama's ovaries. I understand fully why you are reluctant to engage with me, you are in way over your head. Women who trash women for being VIRGINS are closer to GIRLS GONE WILD than real feminists. Go suck up to Heart some more, and she can christen you a feminist just for telling her how wonderful she is. But hey, that is not real feminism, any more than killing women and children for Republicans is feminist. But they are too afraid to tell you that, since you will *detonate* faster than a car bomb.

Although I *do* remember that post of Lucky's over at Heart's... Lucky seems to agree with ME about the military. Heart scuttled the post pretty fast, before you could see it. Trouble in paradise?

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Okay, ENOUGH.

I'm thisclose to dropping the banhammer on your head.