Going to war...

[agilebrit]

Figuratively speaking. Why, yes, I'm looking at ginmar again. Now, understand that I haven't looked at her or even thought about her much since my last entry about her. And then last night I start getting emails in my inbox from that entry. Note the date of the entry: Clear back in May. Apparently ginmar found this entry last night somehow (I'd love to know exactly how that happened, because, dude. Just...dude.) and decided to make an issue of it.

Now, it's one thing to attack me. I'm a big girl, I can take it. Not like I haven't been attacked for my beliefs before. And it's not like I haven't had people get pissy and personal and downright mean with me because I dared to disagree with their politics.

However.

When you attack my friends? Especially when you attack a very dear friend over what she chooses to do (or not do, in this case) with her body? The gloves come off.

There are many ironies in this situation. Gin has 603 people that she has friended, and 600 more who have friended her. My defriending her shouldn't have even been a blip on her radar screen. And it apparently wasn't--at the time, back in May. Why she decided to make an issue of it this late in the game is a mystery that will probably never be solved. And how she made an issue of it is fascinating and causes me to call "troll."

Not because she disagrees with me. I don't care if someone disagrees with my politics; lots of people do, especially on LJ. I can discuss issues in a calm manner, without getting into personalities, until the cows come home. But she apparently didn't have any answer for the substance of my argument, since she never addressed it. No, she resorted to vulgar, profane ad hominem attacks, and straw men. She said she was mad because I did it "behind her back."

Well, there's a reason for that. Her LJ, her space. My LJ, my space. Had I had the temerity to disagree with her in her space, she would have subjected me to exactly the same sort of attacks, labeled me a troll, and banned me. The difference is, all her one thousand, two hundred and three friends would have jumped down my throat as well. Did I want the drama? Did I want the email flooding into my inbox? No. Therefore, I posted in my own LJ, figuring (rightly, at the time) that she wouldn't notice, and with the added bonus of getting something off my chest that had been annoying me for quite some time. Which I'm allowed to do, last time I checked, in my space. Maybe I shouldn't have named her particular name; Lord knows enough talking heads on television were saying the same thing at the time. Maybe I should have flocked the post. However, both those actions, in my mind, would have been more chicken-hearted than I was (apparently) already being by not posting the argument in her LJ, and I wanted her to have the opportunity to respond, if she chose.

So, what happens? She finds the entry nearly six months after the fact...and doesn't respond to a single point in the actual post. Instead, she goes off on my friends, who OMG! agree with me that I can defriend whom I want to defriend for whatever reason I choose. She accuses one of my friends of only seeing things in black and white (which is absolutely hilarious coming from her). She whines about how hard her life is. She talks about seeing mass graves. Yeah...did we create any of those mass graves? No? Way to make my point for me, Gin. Which was, in case anyone missed it, that the statement "We're committing worse acts than those we are opposing" is complete and utter Bravo Sierra.

So. You want a war? Bring it, lady, because I'm beyond furious right now. But leave my flist and their lifestyle choices out of it.

ETA: Due to some rather profane spammage, anonymous comments are now screened. You want to be an asshat, be one in public where everyone can see you. That being said, I'm leaving the offending comment up, because that way everyone can snicker at what an immature person whoever left it is. Plus, it helps me make my point (see "vulgar, profane ad hominem attacks, and straw men" above).

Comments

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Good grief! This woman is extremely ill-mannered and unpleasant - and being in the armed forces is absolutely no excuse for the vitriolic profanities she is spilling all over your journal or the way she insulted both you and one of your friends. Being in the forces should surely have taught her some respect. My own views on the war in Iraq could well be seen as left-wing - it was a pointless invasion based on spurious non-information just about sums my views up - and I know that at times you and I are likely to have differing angles on things - but it is no excuse to go on like that! And if seeing mass graves has had the effect on her that it appears to have I think she should seek counselling. I should go and say so on the actual page I guess - but I'm probably too much of a coward to put up with her verbal diarrhoea.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

And if she starts dropping f-bombs in my LJ again, I'll ban her butt. I'm actually rather embarrassed that I dropped on on that entry myownself last night, because I use that word maybe three times a year, but I was furious.

[appomattoxco.livejournal.com]

Now Ginmar is saying that is whole thing is about her not being chipper enough in her LJ. I want to make a comment, but I'm not sure I'm qualfied. That so many people are petting her and encouraging her to be herself makes me angry. Be youself all you like don't attack the personal choice of another person.

[kathleendoris.livejournal.com]

That person is so crazy. What the hell is she angry about?

You said you admired her and wished her well.

All I can figure out is that she would have perfered you to have been brave/rude by attacking her on her lj becuase you're public post was cowardly. She's a nutcase.

I am tempted to make a post on my lj about how crazy I think she is to see if I can increase the number of comments on my lj. Right now the number is really low and it makes me look unpopular. If I can get this person to leave me 15 or so comments asking if I have seen mass graves and calling me a cowardly bitch it would increase my lj cred.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

I think she's just angry in general. She'd like me to attack her in her own LJ because her 1203 minions could then attack ME. If I "attacked" her in her own LJ, she could call me a troll and ban me for a "reason." Why should I subject myself to that? I'm still in shock that she somehow found an entry from May and is angry about it.

[fikgirl.livejournal.com]

I like that idea. I'm relatively low on comments too. Maybe everyone with low comments should just make a post about how psycho she is. :P

Warning

[cheshyre]

Found this from otf_wank. Brava, agilebrit (and honorh, too), for handling matters with such grace and aplomb in the face of incredible provocation.

“I am tempted to make a post on my lj about how crazy I think she is to see if I can increase the number of comments on my lj.”
I got into my own dispute with Ginmar last December. In the process, I quoted one of her posts in an entry of mine (I was trying to avoid accusations I was twisting her words by taking things out of context). She then complained copyright-infringement to LJ-Abuse who filed a legal DMCA complaint against me. When I filed the appropriate defense claiming fair use, Gin accused me of bringing in the lawyers. [In her defense, I think she didn't know her LJ Abuse claim would trigger a legal notice, and when then panicked when she received legalese in return.] Matters got really really ugly. If you go searching thru the archives, the publically-available stuff in our journals are only the tip of the iceberg as far as what really happened.

So if anybody's thinking of waving the red-flag in her direction, might want to avoid quoting her directly, in case she calls in the LJ Abuse guns.
And if you do file an LJ Abuse claim, I recommend requesting they CC you so you know exactly what they're sending to the other party.

Also, Gin has a history of changing history by locking or editing posts. I'm not sure whether she also goes so far as to delete her comments, but if you ever think you'll need this as evidence, you may want to back up the threads as they stand.

Hope this helps. [And hope my presence here doesn't inflame matters further.]

[calliopes_pen]

Wow, that is insane. I originally friended her because I, also, wanted to see how she was doing in Iraq. I, also, defriended when things got a little too political.

She had no reason to go completely over the edge like she did. (And I'm trying to be nice--I could say something else, but I won't.) You did great in the way you tried to talk reason to her, but you shouldn't have had to go through that.

*Hugs you*

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

It was one thing if she had responded to me. But she didn't even answer the post; she answered the replies to the post. And the way she treated honorh was inexcusable. Gin owes her a huge apology.

*hugs back* Thanks.

[kantayra.livejournal.com]

*blinkety blink blink* Whoa! o.O

You know, I've had people insult me in their LJs before, and I've known about it. You know what I did? Nothing. Because they're entitled to think whatever they want of me, and they're allowed to say it in their own space, and it's really not worth my time to try to piss in their pool. But seriously... WTF? The gratuitous swearing just makes her look so very crazy. And, from what I can gather, I might have even agreed with her original viewpoint.

Also, since when is avoiding conflict 'cowardly'? I would have called it more 'mature'... This situation is so very strange to me. It does not seem to follow Earth Logic. o.O

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

And it was that whole thing I was trying to avoid by posting it on MY LJ rather than hers. I'm a much smaller fish than she is, and I figured she wouldn't even notice. And she didn't...at the time. Why she chose to visit it at this point in the game is anyone's guess.

[ludditerobot.livejournal.com]

She's a big part of the reason I fear talking about politics on LJ. I unfriended her because she just got to caustic.

As you well know.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Yeah... You know what though? I'm not going to let other peoples' opinions stifle me on my own space. Anyone who reads my userinfo knows what they're getting into. But if she has a problem with ME, she should take it up with ME...not my friends who happen to comment on the post.

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

I'm probably 180 degrees from you on the political spectrum, but in case you're wondering--not all liberals are like her. You may want to think about banning her because as far as I've been able to tell, she's nuts, and you don't deserve the abuse from her.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Don't worry, I don't think all liberals are like her. :-) And I won't ban her unless she gets abusive again. I have the page bookmarked just in case.

[palmaceae.livejournal.com]

i have no words. it's like, crazy talk. just spews hate and anger at any available target and justifies it with her war experience, which as horrid and tragic as it was, doesn't mean she can attack you in your eljay. i stopped reading her months ago for the same reasons, she scared the heck out of me. *hugs*

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

*hugs back* Thanks.

[crayonbreakygal.livejournal.com]

Not even sure what to say other than, yep, you're right. And I hate it when people curse at me for no reason. I wasn't even commenting on Iraq or anything like that.

BTW, love your icon. And I haven't been reading your fic lately. I feel so guilty. I need to get my squee back.

**love and hugs**

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

*hugs back* Hey, you're busy with the new babe; I don't expect you to be reading my fic. It'll still be there when you have more time, right there on my FFN profile. You take care of yourself, hon.

And, dude, she had NO call to go off on you like that. You didn't do anything wrong.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Psst! We got wanked!

Also, some of us virgins are thinking of creating our own community, as we're now suddenly aware we're not allowed to comment or have opinions on anything with our "embalmed hymens."

Seriously, I've gotta remember that . . .

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

Impressive. I'd say that the majority vote goes to sanity.
Would I be eligible for the community? It's been so long that I'm thinking of getting a bumper sticker that says "Born again virgin..." hee.

[fikgirl.livejournal.com]

So. . . let me see if I've gotten this straight ...

This individual comes over to your journal to comment on a post you made eons ago about something political that you disagree with her on . . . and to top it all off, she doesn't even argue/debate the original point of your email, but rather launches a flame attack not only against you, but against one of your friends based on a personal, non-political decision this friend made that had absolutely nothing what-so-ever to do with your original political disagreement.

*mindboggles*

*facepalms*

I am so sorry that you had to go through that. You approached this logically, commenting in your own journal, disagreeing politically, and tried to avoid the drama.

*shakes head*

I really just. Don't. Get. It.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

You and everyone else, apparently. Even the folks over at OTF Wank are telling her to take her meds. Or find new meds. Or something.

I mean, I get it. She's probably got PTSD, and I'm sorry she had to see such horrid things. But, dude, disagree with ME and the point *I* made--don't go off on my friends for agreeing with me that I can defriend who I want to defriend.

In a further irony, she's just done a massive defriending herself. Waah, people are defriending her and not saying anything, and therefore she can't defriend them back. News flash, Gin: I wasn't on YOUR flist. I notice when people friend me; I know how many people I have friended and who has friended me. I realize that you have more friends by an order of magnitude than I do, but if it's that important to you...find a way to keep track.

[0lesserknown0.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't know that my virginity was limiting my opinions! I better lose the pesky thing, STAT!

*eyeroll*

I think you're handeling the crazy person quite well agilebrit. She obviously isn't playing with a full deck of anything.

By the way, speaking of friending, I followed honorh over here and thought you were a blast. So you're on my flist. Hope that's ok. *grin*

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Very cool, the more the merrier! I friended you back. Just an FYI, it's usually much more boring than this around here. LOL :o)

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

It's like watching a train wreck, isn't it? My Dad went to Viet Nam twice and spent twenty years in the Army, so yeah, on the military family bit. As for her attacking my good friend honorh on her virginity? That's really beyond the pale. I mean, I've read about Teh Magic Cock, but I didn't know it was THAT powerful.

[mommanerd.livejournal.com]

I've friended you. I don't know how I didn't find you sooner.
(edited - because it makes more sense this way...)

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

*grins* Welcome!

[(Anonymous)]

Well, aren't we the moral guardian?

Listen up, you fucking evil bitch of a fat Yank cunt who thinks it's okay to murder people in another land in the name of warped ideas perpetuated by a monkey leader-- I HOPE YOU GET FUCKING CANCER.

[(Anonymous)]

iawtc

I have no time for ignorant asses.

[fierynotes.livejournal.com]

Hello. You probably don't know me, and I only barely know honorh in passing (I think she's the same HonorH), but I followed this bunch of wankers here. The story of the Rabid Emu Trying to Kick Your Teeth in for an Imagined Slight has spread a lot further than you might realize -- there are a lot of people pulling for you. (Even those of us who've come to expect batshit from ginmar were stunned by her attack on you.)

True, ginmar has a lot of friends, and many devoted readers... but she has also pissed a lot of people off. Also, many of the people who've friended her have only done so because they like to read the stuff she writes when she hasn't eaten a whole box of crazy flakes... and a few of them are wankers: people who watch her until she goes boom, and then post links in places like Fandom Wank, so that others can point and giggle at her.

Do not be afraid of her, or her fanpoodles. She doesn't have half as many as she appears to.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, I saw the post at OTF_Wank with some bemusement. I'm a teeny little fish in the LJ pond, and I figured the only people who'd notice this were the folks swimming around in my particular little school. Heh.

And no worries. If I was afraid of her (per se), I wouldn't have made such a public post. But thanks for your support. :-)

[peaseblossom03.livejournal.com]

I don't agree on many of your points on the war. It is your journal, however, and you absolutely have the right to say whatever the fuck you feel like. You give your point of view in a way that's cogent and thought-out, without resorting to "Jane you ignorant slut" to try to make it.

(pssst, Psycho Emo and Anonymous Dumbfuck: THAT's how you do it!)

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

See? It's easy to disagree without being disagreeable. For some people, anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

Ok, I know this is way after the fact, but I also cannot tell you how annoyed I am by ginmar. I friended a long time ago after she was quoted in metaquotes from an entry about her cats. It was good thing I was alone at the time, because I was howling with laughter.

Her inability to use an lj-cut annoyed me more than the content of the entries. Don't get me wrong, I have people on my f-list who write long entries and don't use an lj-cut, but they don't do it all the time. I wish there was a way you could choose which entries you saw. That way I could skip all her crap.

I'll stick to her funny entries, thanks.

[(Anonymous)]

She has funny entries? I've never seen one.

Look forward to me randomly researching ginmar in a few months and returning!

[peterchayward.livejournal.com]

Woooooah! I probably say this every few months, but I had no idea that this was how I found your livejournal!

So even though you know, she came and was a bitch about the whole thing - it's how we met! And it's been a friendship which I have most thoroughly enjoyed. :D