*sigh*

[agilebrit]

You know what they say about the road to hell?

I watched the whole thing unfold yesterday at Fandom Wank and liz_marcs's LJ, but it wasn't until I was about to go to bed that it finally hit my flist. I've had some time to think about it and digest it, and now I think I'm ready to weigh in.

This whole WfI thing has been handled with ham-fisted clumsiness by LJ. Instantly permanently suspending journals with "questionable" interests listed, without warning, and without allowing the people involved to rectify the situation? NOT COOL.

Especially when innocent comms for survivors are caught in the crossfire. Because your account was reported to us, and because it contained illegal activities in your interests list, we must permanently suspend it. I call bullshit. Where are the permanent suspensions of the comms that list "smoking pot" (37 comms, 401 users) and "sniffing glue" (11 comms, 126 users), then?

Because LiveJournal's interests list serves as a search function, and because listing an interest enables other people also interested in a similar topic to gather and/or congregate, we have been advised that listing an interest in an illegal activity must be viewed as using LiveJournal to solicit that illegal activity...

And I call bullshit again. MUST BE VIEWED??? Who the hell "advised" them of that? Maybe they should invest in some real lawyers instead of interweb ones. Maybe they should LOOK at the actual comms and users in question and see if they're actually soliciting illegal activity, or merely trying to come to terms with the illegal activity that was perpetrated upon them.

LJ and WfI would have been better served by going to law enforcement, behind the scenes, with their concerns. The public witch hunt hasn't served ANY cause well, and has only served to warn actual pedophiles to bury themselves deeper.

Well done, old chaps.

Standard Disclaimer: Icon reflects general disgust with the situation and is not directed at any particular person. I really need a better "general disgust" icon...

Comments

[laii.livejournal.com]

I think everyone agrees that it "has only served to warn actual pedophiles to bury themselves deeper."

Even I got involved, and I'm not huge in any fandom!

LJ still doesn't have a statement issued out. And there are 24 pages of comments on the most recent news posting....

[http://users.livejournal.com/opalescence_/]

What about the communities devoted to and promoting anorexia?

I don't know much about all of this and what has been going on, but I've caught some of it.

[dragonflymuse.livejournal.com]

This whole thing is a Gordian Knot of free speech/freedom of expression and when it crosses into the criminal side of solicitation and promotion. Sending a robot out to scan for key words and then go and levee and absolutist solution is not democratic or compassionate. What about terms and phrases like 'i love nazis' or 'getting drunk' as interests? Both are socially objectionable (and to some very taboo and unacceptable things) but because 1)alcohol is legal and 2)... well, I have no excuse for #2, except for the standard freedom of speech issues, but because they are 'interests' that promote hatred, division and unhealthy/dibilitating activities, are they, too, going to be added to the list of objectionable interests?

I would really like to know who has their knee on LJ's crotch ::coughSIXAPART??cough:: to make them do this. Squeaky wheels and all...

The counterpoint to this is that, no, I don't like incestfic or underage abuse stories, etc. If people feel that they have something to say in those areas in a creative manner, good for them, and I hope they can express themselves. I love Supernatural, but I completely don't know (aside from the simplest common factors) why so much fiction would be devoted to 'Wincest'/incest fic. There are alot more thematic angles to explore regarding the brothers than simply having the two pretty boys mess around :/

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

It's up to 44 pages now, although the first six are about the actual topic of that particular news post. I haven't written fic since last year, I've never written incest (although I've had two characters raped), so this affects me personally not at all, but the clumsy handling of this situation and the fact that survivor comms were suspended has me frothing.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Well, anorexia isn't illegal, dontchaknow?

I only caught early yesterday because I check Fandom Wank on a fairly regular basis; it didn't hit my flist until late last night. I'm not even peripherally impacted myownself since I don't belong to any of those comms and don't read or write that kind of thing. What I'm furious about is LJ actually equating perpetrators with survivors. Jeez, way to victimize them further, SixApart! *sarcastic thumbs-up*

[laii.livejournal.com]

I think I've read one of your rape fics, in which it was done tastefully and was there for plot purposes only.

I will agree though, very clumsily handled. Rumors have been flying for days now. They should have put a stop to it much sooner.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Well, their site, their rules--Freedom of Speech is a restriction on the government, not a blogging site. I just wish they'd be consistent in what the rules actually are, and consistent when they enforce them. I've heard rumbles that they had complaints about the actual pedo comms before, and their response was "Nope, sorry, can't do anything, talking about something, or even confessing to something, isn't the same as doing it, have a nice day." To turn that response around on a dime and permanently suspend journals with no warning (and, according to the TOS, they're supposed to warn you!) left and right--and equate abusers and victims by suspending them both? NOT ON.

And I've written stories where people were raped and murdered--on a mass basis. Does this mean I advocate such? Are the WFI going to come after me for the ReaverFic or the DamnFic next?

[baron-waste.livejournal.com]

Here's an interesting twist on it - apparently the Russian-language LJ comms get censored for content as an ongoing thing.

Nice, that we're emulating the Russians, isn't it? Of course, that's what Political Correctness is all about; what people believe, they cannot say, and what people say, no one believes. It's a very Russian practice. That it's not American, well, neither are the people who are foisting it upon us...

[baron-waste.livejournal.com]

Have an icon.



http://originality.livejournal.com/158494.html

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

I had Kaylee raped (offscreen) in one fic, and it dealt mainly with Jayne's feelings of helplessness watching the aftermath. And of course there was the ReaverFic. *shudder* I can't help but wonder if the WFI will come after me for those, especially the ReaverFic, because, hey! Forced cannibalism! Never mind that I broke Jayne into teeny tiny pieces in that one, I wrote it and therefore I must advocate it.

Or something. *growls*

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

*snerk* Those are AWESOME.

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Can I just say that that is about how I feel - I write a bit of fanfic containing none of the trigger phrases this time so it also has no effect on me personally - but the fact that survivors support groups are being hit is just disastrous for them. They have spent years trying to overcome the feeling that it is somehow all their fault, and now someone is basically saying that being a victim of abuse is criminal and illegal and we don't want your sort around here.

I find Granny Weatherwax a comfort in my icon list at these times!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Sadly I get the impression that the vigilante group involved are American. Sadly because it just tends to confirm what many of us in the outside world think - there are probably weirder, madder and more downright unpleasantly stupid people in the US than in any other single country in the world.

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

I'm still kind of waiting for the dust to clear out there. I am in total agreement with you and was incensed when I heard that survivor communities had been deleted. Then I got this link http://catrinella.livejournal.com/151812.html#cutid1
and felt a bit better. I don't want sexual predators in my cyber neighborhood, but I also don't want someone cutting an unrestrained swathe through fandom or rl issues.

LJ's silence is inexcusable. At the very least they are allowing fear to run rampant through their subscribers. At worst, they care nothing for the opinions of the people who make them a viable entity.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Yup, it's been a day and a half since the feces hit the fan. More than long enough for LJ to step up and say something to US, rather than some online news outlet. The way they've handled this is inexcusable.

[bullet4fob.livejournal.com]

i think that LJ has got every right to ban whatever journals they want and for whatever reason but this is a public realtions nightmare.

i should really apply for a PR posistion. they really need someone.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

Sure, they have that right, but when they're violating their own TOS, that's not cool. If they went after actual individuals and comms that were advocating rape and child molestation, that would have been one thing...but they wholesale suspended LJs with just the interests listed without actually *looking* at them at the behest of a dodgy "organization" composed of three people. And those three people had no clue about LJ culture (which they admitted) and just went stomping around like an elephant in a china shop.

The response, rather than immediate suspensions, should have been "We'll work with law enforcement behind the scenes to get actual perpetrators behind bars." Especially since their response to a group with the same concern, which had actual credentials, amounted to "Zark off."